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Old 05-30-2013, 11:56 PM   #1
Mickey21
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Yaay, another engine build.

So as some of you already know, my 2006 GTO I got imported from OZ to Austin TX (Of course, they're all imported), got re-imported back to the land down under, New Zealand to be specific. It had a nice cam installed along with some other goodies thanks to my best buddy Lancer-AM along with some other GTO owners and some techie friends. Was running really well till a few months ago when the engine took a dive. Ending result a lower bearing failed, some shrapnel made it's way to the oil pump and of course this now means a engine rebuild.

I think I have settled on what Texas Speed and Performance are recommending, their 402 (6.6L) stroker kit (found here: http://www.texas-speed.com/p-903-tsp...-assembly.aspx).

Keep in mind that prices for parts in NZ (I am born and raised in TX though) are a bit higher than you are used to in the states on things like this so even though I have to pay 440$US to ship all the stuff to NZ, it comes out way cheaper. Just to give you an idea, a single stroker forged crank here, goes for just over 1900$US, WITH NOTHING else included. In the end, TSP quoted me about 3160$NZ (2553$US) shipped to me.

What I want to know from people in the know, is if there is anything I should consider before I pull the trigger? So far I am getting the parts listed below:

TSP Forged Crankshaft
TSP 6.125" H-Beam with ARP 8740
Wiseco 4.005" -15cc Dish (inlcuding steel top/napier 2nd ring sets)
Clevite Main & Rod Bearing set
Standard Wrist Pins (versus HD Tool Steel)
Balance the Rotating Assembly
FAST 46 lb Injectors (LS2 Specific) (TSP suggested these, are they overkill?)



Being that I know of course it will need a retune, what else should I consider in the build that is highly recommended while I am in the middle of this build? I want to make as much consideration for what should be put in the bottom end and in the engine while I have the engine torn down as to make a good impact on longevity and/or performance. Keeping in mind this is a daily driver that does see the track sometimes, but I have to live with even more. See signature for additional mods performed.

Also, any predictions on kind of power the engine might make when the stroker is complete? Just wondering where it will go? I have very little clue how well the changes will be felt.

Oh yeah, any suggestions on spark plugs and wire sets, might as well upgrade them while I am at it?
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2006 Torrid Red GTO (Moved to NZ from Austin, TX) - Mods installed - CAM/Tune/2800StallConverter/Kooks1'7/8HeadersSS/SSRacingHighFlowCats/CorsaSportXO-CrossoverExhaust/CAI/Rods/Springs/SuspensionBushings&LoweredStifferSprings/PortIntake/SSBrakeLines/SonyXNV-770BT&RearCamera/SpeakerUpg/(430rwhp/410tq)

~500HP Holden Crewman SS - 5.7 LS1 - Lumpy Cam - Mafless Tune - Catless Straight Exhaust - Custom Paint - SOLD to pay for mods/shipping GTO to NZ.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:11 AM   #2
Robofuzz
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Might want to upgrade the fuel pump.
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:29 PM   #3
Mickey21
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I asked that same question to TSP, but they said the 06 GTO fuel pump will be fine, only the injectors need to be upgraded. I did have a look though. Anyone you know of have trouble sticking with the oem pump? Trying to build the budget for all the parts and I am trying my best not to overlook something being that the parts are so far away.
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2006 Torrid Red GTO (Moved to NZ from Austin, TX) - Mods installed - CAM/Tune/2800StallConverter/Kooks1'7/8HeadersSS/SSRacingHighFlowCats/CorsaSportXO-CrossoverExhaust/CAI/Rods/Springs/SuspensionBushings&LoweredStifferSprings/PortIntake/SSBrakeLines/SonyXNV-770BT&RearCamera/SpeakerUpg/(430rwhp/410tq)

~500HP Holden Crewman SS - 5.7 LS1 - Lumpy Cam - Mafless Tune - Catless Straight Exhaust - Custom Paint - SOLD to pay for mods/shipping GTO to NZ.
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Old 06-02-2013, 03:56 PM   #4
Stang2Goat
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Stock pump is fine until you add boost or spray. I had mine upgraded to the Walbro 255 from LPE just in case back in 09 when SNL first put my 402 in.

More suggestions to come! Back to work for now.
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541whp/505wtq N/A, SAE on Dynapack @ RPT through cats and a 2.5" exhaust...

Did I mention...All-Motor?

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Old 06-02-2013, 04:03 PM   #5
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Tell me what your end goal for the car is in terms of power, ET or mph and I ca give you better guidance.

Knowing what I do, and what I have told you in PMs, I would sell the LS2 block off and use that money towards a 416-418 LS3 based stroker. 4.005" is just not enough bore. Opening it up to 4.065-4.080" unshrouds the intake valves and opens a world of potential for different head choices from affordable to radical.

Use a C5R timing chain instead of a double roller, and talk to people who have a shortblock built by your engine manufacturer before you make a decision.

LMR, HSC and VaSpeed are also worth a look, though I have been very pleased with my TSP shortblock considering what it has endured over 25k miles. :-)

Steel top rings gapped correctly for what you want are a MUST. Plasma moly rings like mine and a tighter (.022" in my case) ring gap greatly limit your options with boost or nitrous.

The -15cc dish you are considering is going to create a hellaciously low SCR as well. A more conservative -5cc dish would allow you to keep near-stock compression without having to mill heads, and still retain excellent PTV (piston to valve clearance).

Figure out your goals for the motor, and if it will be NA or boosted so we can select the right amount of dish to arrive at a pump gas friendly SCR. Keep in mind 12:1 is easy with aluminum parts, a good tuner, and good valve events. Mine runs 26* timing in Texas temps with 0* KR. 525-550whp NA is easy with the right parts on a 416 motor, and results in a hellaciously broad torque curve from 2500-6500rpm.

I wanted a max effort NA build using off the shelf intake and factory hood/pump gas, so these were my requirements.

Yours can be as mild or wild as you want.

Bottom line is I have spent years researching to get to where I am now, so I can definitely point you in the right direction for parts selection. LOT of good deals on used parts on LS1Tech btw. Can have them shipped to me or Lancer until you're ready to have it all crated over to KiwiLand.

Miss you buddy! :-)

-mcs
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12:1 402 LS2 stroker, SNL-installed/Stang2Goat-built/Reckart-tuned
541whp/505wtq N/A, SAE on Dynapack @ RPT through cats and a 2.5" exhaust...

Did I mention...All-Motor?

Too many reasons to be unhappy in life:
Pharmaceutical Grade LS-Motors - still the best drug, since 1997!

Last edited by Stang2Goat; 06-02-2013 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:04 PM   #6
Mickey21
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Thanks for the reply MCS, we'll talk more later, but for the threads sake, my goals aren't really goals so to speak. I am not fixated (not saying you are unless you are) on anything particular in the realms of HP numbers, or anything like that. I guess if I have goals they are that I spend my money wisely.

In saying that, I dont think I want to get into trying to sell my LS2 block. It sounds like too much trouble. Kiwis in my opinion dont do as much modifications to their V8 Holdens as the LS crowd in the US do and I have a feeling it will take me a while to sell off my LS2 block. Additionally, shipping on in from the US and cross shipping my LS2 block to someone over there will likely offset any financial benefit since I imagine it will cost in the area of 600 US$ just to ship one engine block.

I am not actually put off by the LS2 block and if it werent for the engine failure, I would likely still be happy with my 430whp numbers. Now that I have a crank failure, and I told myself hard that I wouldnt move to a stroker or anything else for that matter if the crank was salvageable, I might as well get a stroker kit.

My budget is going to be about 8K US$. Some of the work I'll be doing myself with the help of some car club friends, but mostly that has to do with removing (already done) and installing the engine. Going to get a tune up north and the engine itself is being rebuilt by a known good engine rebuilder.

I guess I would be "happy" if I was to hit 500rwhp, but anywhere around there is just gravy. I am already happy with how quick it is. After this, I would consider the build complete once I get some painting and wheels redone, though I do have a matching trailer that I want to build as well, but in no hurry for that. After that, just enjoy the car until the day I leave the country and the car is going to stay behind.
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2006 Torrid Red GTO (Moved to NZ from Austin, TX) - Mods installed - CAM/Tune/2800StallConverter/Kooks1'7/8HeadersSS/SSRacingHighFlowCats/CorsaSportXO-CrossoverExhaust/CAI/Rods/Springs/SuspensionBushings&LoweredStifferSprings/PortIntake/SSBrakeLines/SonyXNV-770BT&RearCamera/SpeakerUpg/(430rwhp/410tq)

~500HP Holden Crewman SS - 5.7 LS1 - Lumpy Cam - Mafless Tune - Catless Straight Exhaust - Custom Paint - SOLD to pay for mods/shipping GTO to NZ.
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:58 AM   #7
Stang2Goat
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After talking last night it sounds like you will need to have machine work done there to save money since shipping your block is more than the second hand value of the thing (sniffles).

That said, and knowing you aren't out chasing dyno/mph numbers like the rest of us money-pissers (tongue in cheek), do this:

1) Keep LS2 block, have cleaned up, rehoned and machined for fresh bearings

2) Save for a 4" LS2 crank, rods, and pistons (Wisecos are fine, steel top ring gapped .022-.028" in case you or future owner decides to lay down my power).

3) Buy these stateside, have stockpiled at a friend's house so it can all be shipped together to save money.

4) Price out what it would cost to have this done to your heads down in KiwiLand:
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...s2ls6-stage-2/

The mid-lift airflow is where you make your power curve and torque, and TEA's heads are top of the list for the cost. My TSP PRC LS6 heads never came close to this level of performance.

Here is the head article I told you about:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...t/viewall.html

Proof that a properly ported 243 casting can hold its own next to the $2600 crowd :thumbs:


5) Fueling: keep stock pump because its adequate for your goals (NA fuel requirements are minimal compared to the BSFC of boost and spray), but recognize that at 85k miles it might enjoy a replacement. If you want to cross this off the worries list:
http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...5#.UazGHUCkpC8

6) Price around on LS1tech and other forums. You can find a good deal on low mileage injectors for $200 instead of the $360-380 new price. 42-46# is fine.

I've fun 46#ers from FAST since I had my 'budget' 402 put in back in 09. Never failed me. Just had them out last wee during the 102 swap: not a hint of carbon buildup or blockage on them in 25k miles. :thumbs: Your tuner can adjust the fuel tables to allow most modern injectors to function correctly. It's only if you were to go way out in left field and run a 50-60# injector (on a modest NA motor) that it becomes difficult to moderate the spray pattern and consumption.

The Ford 42# injectors are great because they actually flow closer to 48# on our setups due to the 50psi of fuel pressure (they are flowed and rated at 42psi), so it's whichever injector you can find cheapest for this build - both work beautifully!

Research what is required to make the 42# 'green top' injectors work - ie, are they shorter than a stock LS2 injector and require adapters to fit out fuel rail, is the harness different and will require adapters (EV1 to EV6 connectors), etc. Adapters are $35 from Fast and harnesses maybe $25 from Caspers Electronics. Not dealbreakers, but these can offset any savings you get on the green tops, so shop accordingly.

7) induction - port the **** out of your stock LS2 intake until you can afford a used Fast92. I say used because TSP sells them new and they are pricier than the 102 at competitors. You will always have 20-25whp/15wtq left on the table with the stock LS2 intake ported compared to a properly sized Fast92 with port-matching. Fast is not required immediately but will be what keeps you off the 500whp mark.

8) exhaust...your catback is fine (3" yahoo!). What longtubes are you running?

9) cam and valvetrain...TSP can help you here. You will be stuffing a much larger cam in this thing to help it breathe properly under the larger displacement and altered valve event requirements (longer stroke changes IVO/IVC EVO/EVC points). That said, don't freak like I did, and like most do, about stuffing a healthy cam in there. Bigger motors eat up cam duration like you wouldn't believe, and make for a very easy to drive combo.

It will not drive poorly if you choose correctly. Just as an example, since we know you will be running 243 cathedral heads with stock or slightly larger valves, and have a 2800 stall converter, we will cam accordingly:

LSL lobes...239/247* @ .050" 113* LSA .624" lift using stock 1.7 rockers.

This is a more valvespring friendly version of the popular TSP MS4 cam, which I ran my first 20k miles with this 402. Once I found a better local tuner who spent the time and dialed in the tables, car drove as ell or better than stock, despite 17.5* of overlap in the cam. 17* of overlap is minimal on 400+ci motors. Stock gears out back (just like you), and I could ease my foot off clutch, no gas, and car would go. 28# Monster FW helped this too, but that cam was a blast to drive. The 239/247 here will give you more on the big end due to the healthier exhaust duration, and will not be a valvespring killer like the MS4 because the LSL lobes are far more forgiving, and still have very healthy ramp rates to get you a lot of air and fuel in those cylinders within its advertised duration. I had to change my valvesprings ever 15-20k miles with the MS4, as anyone will using LSK lobes. The cam I described to you here will not have that drawback.

Also note that is the same cam used in the 408 test above by Richard Holdener. He likes that cam as it makes for very repeatable results across a wide range of cylinder heads, and still provides excellent drivability in strokers.

I will add more as it comes to me, but this should get you started. This is a very doable project if we plan well ahead and buy parts at used or sale prices. I will help however you want me to. Can even store some parts at my place until you are ready to ship if Lancer is low on room. Whatever you guys decide.

Cheers, Amos!

Ass-kicking 402 teaser:
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12:1 402 LS2 stroker, SNL-installed/Stang2Goat-built/Reckart-tuned
541whp/505wtq N/A, SAE on Dynapack @ RPT through cats and a 2.5" exhaust...

Did I mention...All-Motor?

Too many reasons to be unhappy in life:
Pharmaceutical Grade LS-Motors - still the best drug, since 1997!
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:53 PM   #8
Mickey21
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Wait what? I need a new cam too, my NSSP isnt a good one to stay with? More stuff to consider.

And I am running the Kooks 1 7/8 longtubes.
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2006 Torrid Red GTO (Moved to NZ from Austin, TX) - Mods installed - CAM/Tune/2800StallConverter/Kooks1'7/8HeadersSS/SSRacingHighFlowCats/CorsaSportXO-CrossoverExhaust/CAI/Rods/Springs/SuspensionBushings&LoweredStifferSprings/PortIntake/SSBrakeLines/SonyXNV-770BT&RearCamera/SpeakerUpg/(430rwhp/410tq)

~500HP Holden Crewman SS - 5.7 LS1 - Lumpy Cam - Mafless Tune - Catless Straight Exhaust - Custom Paint - SOLD to pay for mods/shipping GTO to NZ.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:00 PM   #9
Mickey21
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About to pull the trigger, will have the build quote up soon. Just want to get anyone's feedback on the final parts. Thanks.
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2006 Torrid Red GTO (Moved to NZ from Austin, TX) - Mods installed - CAM/Tune/2800StallConverter/Kooks1'7/8HeadersSS/SSRacingHighFlowCats/CorsaSportXO-CrossoverExhaust/CAI/Rods/Springs/SuspensionBushings&LoweredStifferSprings/PortIntake/SSBrakeLines/SonyXNV-770BT&RearCamera/SpeakerUpg/(430rwhp/410tq)

~500HP Holden Crewman SS - 5.7 LS1 - Lumpy Cam - Mafless Tune - Catless Straight Exhaust - Custom Paint - SOLD to pay for mods/shipping GTO to NZ.
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