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Old 05-21-2014, 07:12 PM   #1
04GTOChris
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GFORCE1320 GTO Differentials

Ö.are garbage, donít get duped by the hype on other sites. My agonizing storyÖ.. About last fall the wifeís 2004 GTO differential started making noise. I called Chris Nichols at GFORCE1320. I explained to him this is the wifeís daily driver and I need it done right the first time. He assured me he uses the best parts and techniques in the business and he is the best GTO diff builder. So, I sent him a spare diff that was to get all the best parts and assembly my money could buy. Well, the diff he built for me leaked, howled and clunked right from the start. I called Chris and he apologized and said they would do it all over again. He went on to explain how sometimes gears and Truetracs are defective. The second diff I got from him performed just as bad as the first one AND had the wrong gear ratio in it. Now Iím pissed because I realize Chris Nichols lied to me. I call him back to vent how I feel but all I get is his answering machine, he never calls me back. I try to email him and he responds. He gives me the same song and dance about defective parts. I say bull****, I want a refund and he wonít agree to a refund. He wants me to send my diff back for another build. I remind him how he assured me it would be done right the first time. We go round and round with the emails and he agrees to get me a refund on the gears and posi. However he wonít give me a refund on his labor because he swears they built it right. I decided to send him the gears and Trutrac and told him I will diagnose what went wrong. He sent me an email back instructing me not to do that, just send the gears and truetrac. With that, I knew he was hiding something. Once the diff was out, I started to look for answers and here is what I found wrong with the second differential GFORCE1320 built for me: Eight inch pounds of rotational bearing preload. This was with the unit fully assembled! Thatís right; pinion, side bearings and ring gear! Next thing to check was backlash and what did I find? .0115Ē - .0120Ē backlash thatís what. So, when doing a pattern check I was not surprised to find it was wrong too. And those best parts he claims to use are far from the best so yeah, he lied about that too. The seals are some off brand (most likely Chinese) I donít recognize. I have seen these seals GFORCE uses before on utility trailers. The crush collar is made of welded seam tubing and fits VERY loose on the pinion, total **** not as good as OEM. Of course I emailed Chris Nichols all this information and he wonít respond to it. Iíll post a picture of the pattern as soon as I am able.
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Old 05-21-2014, 07:24 PM   #2
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Oh, geez. You might add this to feedback section too. You aren't the only one with similar issues, I've redone many of his builds and lots of guys don't report honest feedback or they get **** on ls1gto. I always find an issue with his builds, usually a handful.
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Old 05-21-2014, 08:00 PM   #3
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I verified the Motive Gears to be quiet if set up properly and noisy if set up like GFORCE did. I should notify Motive Gear that GFORCE uses them as a scapegoat for poor workmanship.

Last edited by 04GTOChris; 06-24-2014 at 11:49 PM. Reason: o
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Old 05-21-2014, 08:16 PM   #4
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Motive gears can be fairly quiet, but can't match oem. There are other issues with them that I encounter often, motive showed no interest to resolve them. Otherwise, they'd be an ok set of gears for the money. At the end of the day, OEM gears are it.
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Old 05-21-2014, 09:56 PM   #5
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They did not fit snug on the Truetrac. Could have been the Trutrac, could have been the gears.
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:25 PM   #6
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moved and merged. No need for multiple post
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Old 05-23-2014, 06:32 PM   #7
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The GFORCE1320 pattern. This bad pattern plus almost no bearing preload plus .0120" backlash made for a noisey, clunky diff.
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Old 05-24-2014, 12:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04GTOChris View Post
The GFORCE1320 pattern. This bad pattern plus almost no bearing preload plus .0120" backlash made for a noisey, clunky diff.
Very typical of what I've seen on the units I've redone. That **** is way off of where it needs to be. I believe he normally sets them up just under that lash setting. He has recommended 8-10 thous for years from when I was on ls1gto to very recent from what I've heard. Even those setting are way off. OEM GEARS AND MOTIVE GEARS USE DIFFERENT SPECS-JUST TO BE CLEAR. In addition, the motive gears have a different tooth profile and other specs that are off of where they should be.

You're not going to get results telling the truth on ls1gto, "you can bring a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." The nut swinging is strong over there and actual knowledge is a far cry from reality. Just look at the comments being made by a few, including the prejudice, lost moderating staff. One guy over there said his diff was built in just two days and he's bragging about that. All my units spend a day or two just getting hot tanking, blasting and mag. So quality control sounds to be on the down tip over there.

When I went out and decided to build these, I got very new, specific and updated information that isn't published anywhere on needed build specs. Let's just say I've yet to get one of my builds returned for any reason. Build specs and blueprinting are super important on these units that were designed to handle under the 400 hp our cars are rated at. My units are seeing double the oem rating, soon triple.

Do you have any other pics of those gears without marking compound? I'd like to see the contact area as it is from lapping.
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Old 05-24-2014, 02:15 PM   #9
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Comedy Central is alive and well I see..

If anyone wants the "Real" story, give me a call.
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by GFORCE1320 View Post
Comedy Central is alive and well I see..

If anyone wants the "Real" story, give me a call.
Tell us about the comedy part, I'm missing it. Is that the pattern your diff left with?

Post the real story too, no one has the time to call you for it. I hear many stories that have turned into reality when I get your low mileage build cores in the shop.
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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFORCE1320 View Post
Comedy Central is alive and well I see..

If anyone wants the "Real" story, give me a call.
Give you a call so you can tell them whatever you want. Assuming people are that stupid reflects what kind of person you are. I verified you set up my diff wrong and all you have to respond with is rhetoric. Your responses and handling of this matter discredits you and your company. Man up, admit you made a mistake and regain lost credibility.
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Old 05-31-2014, 03:48 PM   #12
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Looks like your last post on ls1gto shut everyone up...lol. It's hard to hide, especially when proof is front and center and you've been giving advice and building diffs for years the wrong way; I think that's clear at this point. Hell, it sucks for fellow GTO owners, but it brings me extra builds.
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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04GTOChris View Post
Give you a call so you can tell them whatever you want. Assuming people are that stupid reflects what kind of person you are. I verified you set up my diff wrong and all you have to respond with is rhetoric. Your responses and handling of this matter discredits you and your company. Man up, admit you made a mistake and regain lost credibility.
I guess you rocked his boat. I've been told he no longer builds diffs. This is a good thing, looks as even his 9" units have a host of issues. No need for a 9" in 99% of GTO builds. Stock diffs built by me will hold very high hp without issue.
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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:36 PM   #14
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Hell, most of the cars that have 9" diffs swapped in don't need them. I have seen 1/4 mile cars slow down after going with a 9".
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Old 08-27-2014, 05:14 PM   #15
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Yes, just the drop out weight is as much as the oem diff.

I hear your boy is sending diff work to someone back east. I've seen the dudes work, he ain't got **** on me. I've redone diffs he has built and I know what he's about. I've yet to meet anyone with the same dedication on building these right. Sad, the guys getting sent over there will not get the quality our cars deserve.
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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

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Old 03-02-2015, 04:52 PM   #16
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The GFORCE Comedy Central ls1gto response.
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=gforce
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Old 03-12-2015, 01:01 AM   #17
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Thousands of views... ha. Guess the cat is out of the bag.
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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
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Old 03-30-2015, 05:09 PM   #18
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The cat is out of the bag indeed. All the lies on ls1gto are coming into focus. More and more people see ls1gto for what it really is. It's nice to see truth win and lies loose. I feel sorry for those who get sucked into the bs and get ripped off from ls1gto rhetoric. We should all spread the word about who the best diff builder really is. If you can help another GTO owner, DO IT! I did, it's the right thing to do.
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Old 03-31-2015, 05:16 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFORCE1320 View Post
Comedy Central is alive and well I see..

If anyone wants the "Real" story, give me a call.
Can we get the real story on this, or is there some sort of gag order about the quality of your parts?

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=723954
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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

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Old 03-31-2015, 05:34 PM   #20
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Miker is getting the same run around I did. The clean break and texture on that shaft says wrong material, wrong heat treat. The right axle material will flex a little before breaking, H13 is a popular steel for axles. I see GFORCE cuts the splines into their hi performance axles, that is a big no no.
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:39 PM   #21
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Miker is getting the same run around I did. The clean break and texture on that shaft says wrong material, wrong heat treat. The right axle material will flex a little before breaking, H13 is a popular steel for axles. I see GFORCE cuts the splines into their hi performance axles, that is a big no no.
When I did testing with all gto stubs and axles, there was much I didn't like. His dimemesions, material and it's hardness was very questionable on the samples we had for R&D. My splines are hobbed and work well. It's the treatments after the machining that make a significant difference and my parts make a handful of stops after cnc. I have yet to see a failure on any of my parts, but should there be, I welcome it and will find a better way to make it.
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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

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Old 05-22-2015, 04:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFORCE1320 View Post
Comedy Central is alive and well I see..

If anyone wants the "Real" story, give me a call.
Hey Chris, what's the truth on this one? You better hope the rest don't come out in the open.


http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthr...5#post17904665
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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
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Old 05-27-2015, 09:02 PM   #23
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i've been watching that thread, waiting for some feedback from the
vendor. nothing yet
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Old 05-29-2015, 07:54 PM   #24
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The most unfortunate thing about the 2quick axles I have is that you can't see how beautiful they are once installed.
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Old 05-30-2015, 01:46 AM   #25
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The most unfortunate thing about the 2quick axles I have is that you can't see how beautiful they are once installed.
Lots of people don't even want to install my parts, they put them under the coffee table or on the wall for a bit..lol. sometimes, I don't want to send them out...lol

Here are my hollow, 300m steel units...
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